well you can see it as insulting if you want...
I am insulted by what i perceive to be a full on assault on the M4M Spaces... that is seems like women and the men who love them... want to 'Penetrate' ALL M4M Spaces... and to me ... THAT is an 'Insult' after so many years of making our Bi Brothers welcome and honoring their choices... the Youth who are Quick to jump on this Band wagon Have NO IDEA of their History... and the STRUGEL that Fagots made to evolve in a way outside of the Het models... and now you are Damn Lucky to find isolated Gatherings that honor M4M Bonding.

it is Frustrating to me that once, the Fagot communities embraced our BI Brothers as BROTHERS... (i never agreed that they were 'confused')
and NOW the over arching(aparent) 'agenda' (note little 'A') of nearly Every Fagot Space that i know of... is now being "Liberated" for Women... and their men...

those who are K6 are very often told they are 'Dinosaurs' and should Just "Evolve or go away..."
... if they seek Peer Male Spaces...
if anyone can Correct me... and show me where that is NOT the case ...
I would be VERY interested.

you can be Ofended by the Data... or the person sharing the idea... but the facts are the facts...
Prove me Wrong.
I have no Fear of being proved Wrong...

I Miss the peer Space of Brotherhood.

W

Hi RDaddy..

There is always the exception to the rule... and you are Defiantly THAT... I know you can not make Broad Generalizations that are all encompassing... but you can name Trends... and this is what I am doing...

Make no mistake... I See Bi Sexuality as the Healthiest State of mind and Body... I am just not that 'Healthy' lol...
I am not trying to pick a Fight with ANYone here... Especially You... You know I hold you in High Regard...
I Calibrate Diversity...
I think that Pengendered Gatherings are WONDERFUL... I just do not want to go to them and be constantly exposed to Fem Nudity... or Fem entitlements...

I go to all male Spaces to Celebrate MEN... Not fem Nudity or imbalances of gender power.
Not Safe for ME... I do not expect people to understand... or have any compassion for my history of experience... but I do not think that gives women the right to Expect Entry to all male Spaces... or Lack of Compromise from any camp... (that is not what I have EVER asked for) ... I Celebrate W4W Spaces... W4M Spaces WMW/MwM Spaces... TWMNMWTXYZ spaces... Whatever...

But for SOME of us... we NEED Spaces to be with Peer MEN Some times... we Worked to Create that...
and that is being Suffocated to DEATH, as Far as i can see... nearly everywhere...
I do not know anywhere that allows more than one or 2 gatherings a year of Brotherhood... and that has Watered Down the effort to build up those Circles... EMENCLEY.

are we such Aplogists... that we can not say ... LOOK THERE... that ONE Place is where CALAMUS (the sacred land of brotherhood Walt Whitman spoke of... ) is THERE... would we as men expect women to invite us to the Isle of Lesbos, as our Right?

until the 'Pangendered agenda' Includes Sanctuary Spaces for MEN to come together with Regularity... as we once did... then something very important has been lost... Even Young Ones Confide in me the Need for m4M spaces... but they are not empowered to SAY SO... in Peer groups who have another plan... (this is what they tell me)

Is the reward of letting our diverse bros and sisters ... celebrate who they were With us SOMETIMES... the Loss of the Spaces that we self actuated before? (for the majority of each year?) what is Wrong with asking them to follow the examples and WORK to CREATE what they Deserve? and respect what they found...?

GAY men are K-6s... (unless that Identity has also been assimilated as well now)... K-6 means No Attraction sexually to Women...
K-5-0 are... that does not make K-6 anymore Defective or confused as Bi men in the 70s... 80s... or...

Some of us have suffered Seriouse abuse at the hands of SCARY Women in our lives...
and DO NOT Feel Safe or Turned on by them... No Matter how Sexy they may seem to you...

so... do you take Lesbians who do not want to be exposed to Cock and Men... and try to assimilate them into a Bi/pan whatever circle... No... I do not think so. this is NO Different.

I do not think it is Right that the CA Men's Gathering has become a 'Gay' thing, because straight men NEED that sort of Space to find Peer support... and Fagots Need M4M Spaces... and i am glad you are creating that in the bondage community... I just do not understand how BAKE MORE PIES ... become TAKE more Pies... ? why not take inspiration and Create something NEW rather than Take what some others have created as a Short Cut entitlement... like manifest Destiny ... which was WAY Fucked up too.

I know, that you Know what I am talking about...
I am just not sure you are in a position to truly Empathize... since you can not know what it is like to feel outside the gathering...

Breitonbush is NOT All male Space... women Staff members... and the one time I went... Women came from off the property to the hot tubs one night (naked) ... and all the men left... the day before that a woman Staff member came and addressed everyone and shamed everyone for having sex in inappropriate spaces... it was very tactless given that there are Men there who could have delivered a Message with MORE Finesse. I never wanted to go back again.

WC is now in the hands of unjust Cliques.
Men's gathering... (you know I have coordinated and support them for years) is in the HOTTEST part of the year... while pangender gatherings get the times Annually where there is more moderate temps and can actually have bond fires...
Has not held a Fagot Beltaine or Samhane in YEARS. on property owned by a "GAY Men's Church"

The gathering that Rick and I coordinated there... we took ALOT of SHIT, for just asking for 2 days before for Prep... and 2 days afterwords (to Clean up... ) so the container of Brotherhood Space... could be held... for that gatherings participants...
god forbid half the time be set aside for that purpose... that effort is what got us ostrasized... there was NO Compromise offered. and that was what we had campaigned for... alot of phony Lip Service... No Effort.

W

PS
and if you did not know...
after being told that GC would give us (rick and I) a Fair hearing...
the Nomenus President and EV had us Excommunicated... before that hearing could be made... in a Illegal 'Special Meeting' that had been advertised to members as a meeting to elect a new Corp Secretary... then the stacked the meeting with 30 people (on the phone conference) that we mostly had never heard of and had never been in our Process... in the 10 years that rick and I sat on that board.

They 'excommunicated' me ... and when Rick exercised his right (according to process in consensus) to Block that "Kangaroo Court" Decision that was totally against our BI Laws... ) they Lumped him in to the action ... and excommunicated us in Consensus "minus 2"
and the entire community sat back and Said Nothing... did nothing...
after the years of our devoted Service... all because one Clique/Faction wants the Land.
the commitment of the so called President, who had given us his Word to uphold Nomenus Process (to be elected) LIED he had NO intention of Honoring his word. and THAT is what killed it for me. if that is leadership... My Church is dead.

The Hired facilitator said: 'the ends justified the means'...
what it really ment, was that my church was DEAD... because it's process had been destroyed... the Trust was violated. and the magic was gone. feels like 10 years of Waste to me.

I wish I Knew where the K-6s have gone to gather...